Worst Possible Relationship → Best Possible Relationship
Lessons in Creative Collaboration from Michael Bungay Stanier from his new book, How To Work With (Almost) Anyone
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Last time on The Creativity Business, I shared a story about the worst person I’ve ever worked with.
In this edition, I’m thrilled to do a 180-degree turn and explore how to have the Best Possible Relationship in your creative endeavours. Michael Bungay Stanier (also known as MBS) is the author of two of my favourite books, The Coaching Habit and The Advice Trap. His new book is How To Work With (Almost) Anyone and he has set the audacious goal of improving 10 MILLION working relationships. Could there be ANYONE better to talk with me about how to build phenomenal relationships as a marketer, content creator, or artist? (Hint: NO. There is not.)
Selfishness vs Generosity in Marketing
When you think about it, most forms of marketing are selfish. If the goal is to market your products and services, you’re probably going to have to talk about your products and services.
And yet… content that Earns Attention needs to be generous and focused on creating value for the intended audience first. There is tension here - too much selfish marketing and you will earn no attention.
It’s the same in creative relationships. When one person does nothing but talk about themselves and always tells you what to do, you probably don’t want to collaborate with them.
MBS is a championship listener and crafter of insightful, thought-provoking questions, which is pretty much the antithesis of selfishness.
And yet… at the same time, MBS is a marketer. He has several books, a terrific newsletter, a podcast, and courses. MBS is also a thought leader, particularly in the space of coaching. Conundrum: how do you share information if you’re known as the person who wrote an entire book advocating for NOT giving advice and instead asking better questions? MBS pulls it off gracefully and I wanted to find out how he does it. It starts with your motivation.
MBS: What motivation is sustainable? For some people making a sh*t load of money by selfishly marketing stuff is a big motivator. It's not particularly for me. This new book I'm putting out has the mission of trying to improve 10 million working relationships. Don't get me wrong - that will help me earn more money and that helps me give more money away, which is one of the things I like to do with my money. But just selling books is not much of a sustainable thing for me. The idea of improving 10 million working relationships is much more motivating. So turning it into a bit more of a mission-led experience rather than a tactical goal-led achievement is helpful for me.
Improving 10 MILLION relationships is exceptionally generous. The starting point is the creation of value for others. And to Michael’s point, if he improves 10 million relationships, his book will have sold a lot of copies as well. But starting with generosity is essential.
I have been mildly obsessed with process over outcomes for the last year and it was fascinating to hear MBS share that same focus.
MBS: Part of my philosophy is a commitment to a process rather than to an outcome. This is not my knowledge - it's old wisdom. I still get entangled and wrapped around ‘where's my book going on Amazon and how's it doing?’ So it's partly just creating structures to help me not get too wrapped around the axle of my own short-term ambitions and to remember the longer game that I'm playing.
“Remember the longer game that I’m playing.” I think we could all get a poster or tattoo of this phrase. So I made a poster for you:
Influence → Generosity → Reciprocity
The very essence of collaboration means giving up control because you are working with others. There are countless examples in marketing or content where you need others to succeed:
You need someone else’s approval to get a budget approved to develop a content project.
You need to get another team’s permission to promote your content on the company website.
You need a mix of different skills and experience to bring a project to life. Whether a project needs writers, photographers, graphic designers, editors, or any other creative role, it’s rare that you’ve got the whole skillset yourself.
You don’t agree with other creators on the format, the story, the tone, or the editorial approach.
So how, in a sea of potential roadblocks and conflict, can you give yourself the best chance to build healthy creative collaborations?
MBS: One of the great fundamental pieces of wisdom that it's helpful to discover as soon as you can is you have far less control over anything than you think. And you have far more influence over things than you would give yourself credit for. And we tend to flip that. We tend to think we have more control over the world, and that always ends miserably.
What does leaning into your ability to influence, rather than control, look like? You may sense a theme emerging - focus on relationships and start with generosity. You need to create value first. And while you can’t control what happens next, you increase the odds of reciprocity when you ‘go first’ generously.
MBS: One of the ways you create influence is through relationships. How do you build strong relationships with people where you can deploy your influence and ask for help? At a fundamental level, there's something around reciprocity. Go to Robert Cialdini's work around influence - if you're in a relationship where there is a give and a take, then that is one of the ways that a relationship is healthy and can be used to increase influence.
Cialdini’s work backs this up: if you create value for others, they are much more likely to return the value back to you in some fashion. If you start with selfishness, you turn people off and you lose your influence. Michael was very open about how, after extensive periods of building relationships and starting with generosity, he is using his influence to ask for help marketing his new book.
MBS: At the moment with this new book coming out, I'm basically cashing in a lot of relationship equity - I'm knocking on doors of people going, “Hey, it's me. Do you think I could come on your podcast? Feel free to say no because we know each other and I don't want you to feel obliged to have me on.”
You can even do this with weak links. For example, Dan Pink and I have been exchanging emails very loosely for 15 years. I've never met Dan, but he has a newsletter called The Pinkcast. It's a really good newsletter. So I just wrote to him and asked, “Hey, would you consider me?” And that is me going, how do I actually own some of the influence that I have by asking for help?
Steve: I can relate, because that’s exactly how I feel asking you to do THIS newsletter. Initially, I had fear asking you to do this. “Is he gonna be okay with me reaching out?”
MBS: But even if I'd said no to you, next time you ask, I'd remember that you’d asked before and I said no. Maybe I'll say yes this time.
Steve: And also, if you ever ask me for anything, I'm going to say yes, because you've done this generous thing for me. There is reciprocity. Going first and being generous in your relationships and organizations is powerful.
MBS: That taps into Adam Grant's work, Give and Take. You just need to make sure that you're giving in a way that is sustainable for you, not giving in a way that is depleting and diminishing for you.
And just because I want to practice what MBS has been preaching about reciprocity and building relationships, here is how our conversation wrapped up:
Steve: Is there anything I can do to help with your new book?
MBS: Just putting this out and, and providing a link to bestpossiblerelationship.com - that would be amazing.
Steve: This has been very generous of you and feel free to reach out any time if I can return the favour in any way.
MBS: Thank you. Steve!
Thank you, MBS! You can count me as Best Possible Relationship #1 for the new book.
What’s Earned My Attention Recently
AI Leaders on AI
I know I’ve linked to the NYT a few times recently and I’m doing it again. This is yet another really progressive format for a story. Interviewing humans about AI with the video overtop generated by AI. It’s fascinating content and the presentation layer adds a lot of value.
The Power of Differentiation in an AI World
I’ve ALSO recently linked to Rishad Tobaccowala’s Substack, and I’m doing it again. I am such a big proponent of differentiation as a business and content strategy and he explains why beautifully in this post.
How to Write
This is a really short video featuring Larry McEnerney, a former head of the writing program at University of Chicago. It’s about attention, it’s about creating value, and it’s about creating an impact for your audience. Love it! (H/T to Roger Nairn!)
If you’re seeking to create a differentiation strategy for your business and your marketing, please reach out to The Creativity Business.